Moderator: 0:01

Welcome to the empowering healthy Business Podcast, the podcast for small business owners. Your host, Cal Wilder has built and sold businesses of his own, and he has helped hundreds of other small businesses, whether it is improving sales, profitability and cash flow, building a sustainable, scalable and saleable business, reducing your stress level, achieving work life balance, or improving physical and emotional fitness, Carl and his guests are here to help you run a healthier business, and in turn, have a healthier life.

Cal Wilder: 0:33

Welcome small business owners. Today our conversation will focus around what is a fractional Chief Operating Officer, or fractional COO for short, and why that matters for small businesses, and why you might potentially benefit from working with one Joining me today is Jeff provost. Jeff has quite a broad background working in large public companies and small privately held businesses and a range of business development and operational management responsibilities. And I think as we get into discussing, I suspect, it might become clear why that kind of a background is particularly helpful for success working with small business owners. You also know Jeff was the chief operating officer for my business for a few years prior to launching his own fractional COO business. So without further ado, welcome, Jeff.

Jeff Provost: 1:25

Good morning, Cal, thank you so much for having me this morning. I'm looking forward to this conversation.

Cal Wilder: 1:29

Sure. So why don't we just get a couple kind of definitions out of the way, in any kind of jargon that might come up in conversation. So, you know, as you think about the Chief Operating Officer role, and doing it in a fractional capacity, what does that really mean?

Jeff Provost: 1:49

Yeah, great question. So many larger organizations have the role of a chief operating officer. And that tends to be someone who's kind of responsible for executing the vision of the CEO and the owners. And just working within the business making sure that all of the different functions of the business are in sync with one another that the leadership team is held accountable to delivering on their results and things like that. So it's very common role in a large organization. Many small businesses have those same challenges in needs. And yet, they can't necessarily afford a full time experienced executive to come in and run their business. And so the whole idea behind our business key performance integrators is to be able to offer that executive level support and service for on a part time or fractional basis, so that the business owners can really take advantage of all the years of knowledge and experience that that these folks have to help them achieve their goals and grow their business.

Cal Wilder: 2:56

Great. Now, you mentioned integrators as in the name of your business. And I know that's a specific role and a certain business management framework structure. But what does an integrator mean? And how is that the same or different from a COO?

Jeff Provost: 3:11

So one of the one of the systems or frameworks that we often do, that we do a lot of work with, is called the Entrepreneurial Operating System, or EOS. And there's a book that was written by Gina wicky, Whitman, that popularizes it called traction. And really, it's a set of concepts and tools that a small business can put in place to help them get clarity throughout the organization to help them to help everyone get on the same page in terms of where are we going? Why are we doing what we do? How are we measuring success? How do we make sure we have all the right people in the right seats and things like that. And so for a company that's running on Eos, there's really two defined roles. One is the visionary who is the CEO or owner. And they're really responsible for kind of the big picture, big ideas, big relationships, champion of the culture, they're the ones that often started the business have a passion for what they do and why they do it. And then the other role is the integrator who tends to be the number two, the COO, the general manager, the president, the VP of Operations, whatever the title is, but really, the responsibility of the integrator is to take that vision and integrate it throughout the business. So to make sure that the leadership team is all working in harmony in pursuit of the same big goals for the company to make sure that they're breaking down barriers if there are areas that the business is struggling and, and really driving root cause problem solving and things like that. So that's really the role of the integrator.

Cal Wilder: 4:49

Okay, great. And it would seem like there's almost an infinite amount of work that a clo or an integrator could do within a business, but in a fractional capacity so that you only have a few hours a week or whatever to invest in your client, each of your clients. So what are some of the areas where you have a lot of impact on a fractional model?

Jeff Provost: 5:12

Yeah, a big piece of where we where we tend to get the most impact up front is really just kind of looking at the strategy of the business and making sure that it's clear. So where are we going? Why are we going there? How are we going to measure success? What are our goals for this year? What are the initiatives that we need to take on this quarter in order to make sure that we're on a path to achieving our goals for the year? If we're, if we tend to fall off the path? How do we recognize that? How do we make sure that we're having discussions and looking at data and having, you know, problem solving sessions and things like that, to resolve issues that are preventing us from achieving those goals. So really, it all starts with a really good strategic plan. And so we can, we can help a business to develop that, and create clarity so that everyone in the business knows what we're doing and why we're doing it. And then we really make sure that there's a good process in place to measure performance against that plan every week, every month, every quarter. And that's really the most important thing that we do is create that plan and then hold people accountable to delivering on that plan. And one of the areas that many, many small business owners struggle is that accountability piece, we have a client that we recently took on that its owner, CEO, her brother in law is on the leadership team. And she struggles with, okay, he's family, and yet he may or may not be delivering in a particular area, and how do I have that conversation and not make it so personal and whatever. So we can really help be a neutral third party there to help really get to the root of that and make sure that everyone is accountable for delivering results and delivering on their commitments.

Cal Wilder: 7:07

Okay, yeah, I can see how that would be challenging, especially in family run businesses, the accountability piece. Yes, yes. So how do you you know, what are some of the tools or specific ways you introduce that to a client?

Jeff Provost: 7:21

So we have, and regardless of whether it's us, or whatever, I strongly encourage any, any small business owner to make sure that they take some time to, it's that proverbial work on the business as opposed to in the business, right. So we try to create some space, we try to make sure that they're taking a little bit of time out of the day to day out of putting out fires and things like that, and really take a day or two days to really think about, what are they looking to do? And why are they looking to do that? So we'll often start with, you know, some type of strategic planning workshop or something like that will bring the leadership team together? Well, we'll kind of walk through what is the vision? What is the strategy? Where are we? Where are we winning? Where are we losing? What are the most important things that we need to do. And that's often a good kind of place to get started, because then you can build from that. And you can start to install more of the regular cadence of looking at data and things like that from from that starting point. So strategic plan, making sure that there's a good scorecard. And then it's really that regular, making sure there's a good leadership meeting in place each week, making sure that you're looking at the right data and making sure that you're having the tough conversations when things aren't going great, and that you're getting to the root cause of what's preventing you from achieving your goals. So those are those are really kind of the fundamental pieces where we tend to get started.

Cal Wilder: 8:51

Yeah, I'm kind of fascinated by the fractional COO model, because it's relatively new. In my day job as CEO, founder of SmartBooks, there's the fractional CFO, fractional Chief Financial Officer role, which is pretty well established these days after the last 15 or 20 years where it used to be if you're a CFO, and you were between jobs, you did some consulting, and then you have actually got another full time job. But these days, the fractional CFO is a thing where people make a long career out of being a fractional CFO for different businesses. And I've certainly done some of that for clients over the years, as well. But I've always had to be very cognizant of what I could commit to successfully deliver on an outsourced fractional role. And then I tried a fractional coo a few years back before you join smart books, and it didn't work out great. And I think it just wasn't that developed as a thing in the marketplace to know what you should and shouldn't commit to being able to deliver a fractional model where you might only be working a day, a week or a few hours a week or sometimes maybe even less Right. Yeah,

Jeff Provost: 10:01

yeah, exactly. And it's a challenge. And so you touched on a couple of different things as well. So, one, I think a lot of people, you know, when you have a finance problem, and you know that you've got a bookkeeper or an accountant who just isn't, isn't giving you enough of what you need, right? So it's clear for business owner, when that happens, I am not getting regular financial results, we're not getting our customers invoiced, there's, there's things that kind of lead them to recognize that they could benefit from a CFO. And many business owners know that a fractional COO is a thing and that it exists, the challenge is, a lot of folks don't realize or recognize what the role of a ce o is and what they do. And so, and it can be very different depending on the business. So, you know, operations means a lot of different things. If you're a manufacturing company, it's very different from if you're a digital marketing agency, in the role of the COO and what they do there, right. And so it's a bit of a challenge. And so at the end of the day, you know, a big part of it is trying to educate people on what it is that a COO does. And then you know, how they might benefit from a fractional resource, who can get them going in the right direction, without the expense of a very senior level executive that you can't necessarily afford on a full time basis with benefits and bonus, and potentially equity and all that stuff. So how can you still get some of the benefits that that type of person can bring, without all of those other hassles and headaches. So it's really about kind of optimizing people in process, making sure that you're really taking a crucial look at the business, making sure you've got the right processes in place, the right people in place to deliver on those processes, making sure you've got that strategic plan, continuing to refine that based on factors that are happening in the business and in the market. And then really kind of taking that vision and integrating it and executing on it throughout the business. So at the end of the day, that's what a COO does, which touches every aspect of the business that could touch sales, it could touch marketing, it could touch finance, it could touch anything, right. And so most of most of the folks that end up in this type of a role, have a breadth of experience, different stages of businesses and different sizes, and in running service organizations and product organizations and tend to have a very broad view of business. So it can add a lot of value in a lot of different areas.

Cal Wilder: 12:38

And shows your model, you know, you want your clients to graduate and outgrow you at a certain point. Are you kind of a permanent solution?

Jeff Provost: 12:46

Yep, no, we are. If we do our jobs, well, then we work ourselves out of the job. So I always like to say we're the for now solution, not the Forever solution. So our typical client engagements are between six and 18 months in duration, we we tend to work, you know, five, most of our engagements are five to 10 hours a week. Everything we do at KPI, anyway is month to month, we don't have any long term contracts. So if we're not adding value, you just don't pay us anymore. And so over over that time period, you know, we really focus on first kind of getting in making sure that we're a good fit, making sure we understand the vision and the goals of the organization. If that doesn't exist, then we build it, we look for opportunities to get some quick wins and get some traction early on. Really focus on optimizing processes and people. And then we get into that regular kind of operational cadence where we just keep on going and rinse and repeat and quarterly planning and annual planning and making sure that we're achieving our goals. And then we really focus on team building and making sure that we've got people in the business who can own and operate their piece of the business. And, you know, if we do our jobs, well, then we find someone who can replace us and you know, becomes a permanent fixture on the team. So that's, that's our model.

Cal Wilder: 14:06

I mean, it sounds attractive, if I'm a founder of a small business looking to grow the business that sounds attractive to me to bring somebody in who all of a sudden becomes responsible for executing everything in the business. Right. But that's probably not the right expectation for me to have, right. So, you know, if we've got listeners who own small businesses, who kind of liked the idea of bringing in, you know, a C level operating executive to be responsible for executing things in the business, like, what is their mindset need to be what is their approach need to be to make it successful? Right, I tend to think you could delegate some things, but you probably can't abdicate some things. Right. So how does that really work in practice?

Jeff Provost: 14:48

And he taught me that and I still use that all the time, because it's very real and true of the delegate versus advocate. And I think, you know, there's a couple things to keep in mind. So one, you're You know, we're not, we're not brought in as a clo, typically, because everything is going great, right? So usually, there's some problems in the business that are, are presenting themselves. And so, you know, the the owner, the CEO, needs to be open minded to like, Okay, I need to, I need to trust that this person is, you know, has been down this road before understands the pitfalls that you know, that we're going to face and can, can come to me with solutions. So they need to be very open minded to that. And, you know, really focus on a collaboration with the the fractional person. So, in count you and I used to do this all the time, but EOS preaches a process called the same page meeting, we're huge on that, where every month or depending on, you know, the engagement, it could be bi weekly, or whatever we get together with the CEO, we make sure that we're on the same page about things, here's the issues that are happening in the business, here's what we see, here's what you see, how do we make sure that we problem solve and get alignment on these things, so that we're not butting heads with one another. So it's really important that, you know, the CEO, and the COO stay on the same page. And that's back to that delegate versus abdicate. And so, you know, you can't just expect that this person is going to come in for 10 hours a week and going to, you know, completely transform your business, and you're going to be able to just go off and go golfing, and whatever. That's not a realistic expectation. But if there are certain areas of the business where you're really struggling, and you need some help, that's where, you know, getting that laser focus attention, getting back together, talking about what's happening, looking at data, coming up with, you know, what are the projects and actions and to do's that we need to do in order to improve this thing. That's really what it's all about. So it's all about expectations, all about staying aligned, making sure you're on the same page, it's really important that there's good solid communication. And I think even reflecting back when I joined you at SmartBox, as the full time CEO taking over from a fractional COO, I felt some of the challenges that the team had, where it was about expectations and communication and accessibility and things like that. So you know, you have to set really clear boundaries, we're going to be available every day, but we might not respond for 24 hours. And our focus day is going to be every Thursday with you, right. So that's our day where we're going to get in, and we're going to do the bulk of our meetings and things like that. So that's an example of how you can kind of put the right boundaries in place, set the right expectations, and then make sure that everyone's aligned on that. And then again, all comes down to communication.

Cal Wilder: 17:52

Right? So you kind of you mentioned, you know, making sure there's a clear strategy to find clear business objectives to find some element of reporting and accountability. And then some quick wins. So could you give us some examples of some good ways to help make this feel a little bit more real and tangible for absolutely what some clients have been able to get?

Jeff Provost: 18:14

Yeah, sure. So here's, here's an example. So we worked with a residential painting company who in 2021, they, you know, they they had a great year, kind of their their highest revenue year in their in their history. But they lost money. And in Q1 2022, they lost$150,000. And that was a surprise to them. They didn't know that they were going to be losing that kind of money. And they knew that they had a sales problem, but they had no idea how to, they didn't really know how to even identify what the problem was. They just knew that they weren't selling enough, and they needed to do something different to call her out of that hole. And so they have their trucks and vans all plastered with their their logo and phone number and website and things like that. So we call the phone number and it rang 11 times, and no one answered, there was no voicemail. And no one called us back. So they only had one salesperson at the time. I called that salesperson the next day and said, Hey, did you miss a call yesterday around this time? Oh, yeah, I was on an estimate. But I always call back. Well, you don't always call back because he didn't call me back. Right? And then so now we're like, okay, maybe there's something here? I don't know, maybe there's not maybe there is. So we dug into their phone system and pulled a bunch of phone reports and found out that in the prior four months, we got engaged it kind of towards the end of March. So right at the end of q1, in the prior four months, they missed 60% of their phone calls where they didn't answer them. So lo and behold, we do all this analysis and we you know, a bunch of those are probably junk calls, but based on their sales process and their you know, Success rate on closing sales and things like that, annualized that was$150,000 in potential revenue that they could have earned had they figured out how to answer the phone. So they didn't even know this problem existed. Number one, and now that we know it exists, how do we solve it? So again, like, well, we can't have some of the phone calls come in after hours, we're not going to have receptionist here 24 hours a day. So we went out, we found a phone answering service that specializes in contractors, we train them on our process built out scripts, we built out a whole kind of qualification process for them, we put Calendly in place with with the estimator to, so that they could schedule the appointments and everything for the sales team. And lo and behold, right, so now we've got 24/7. phone coverage, we don't have to qualify leads anymore, the sales rep gets an email that they've got an estimate tomorrow at 11am, with all of the details that they need. And all they have to do is show up sales teams happy, they don't have to deal with that grunt work that they didn't want to deal with before. And, you know, we've got a great solution in place. So that was one example of a quick win. Overall, with that business, we ended up for 2022, we grew revenue by 80%. And we got them onto a path with a 10% net profit by the end of the year. So they made a profit on the year as a whole on a run rate of you know, 10% net, and clawed out of that $150,000 loss in q1 on top of investing in us. So now here we are, you know, a year and 14 months later, and we're starting that process of finding our replacements and, you know, helping to kind of transition more of what we were doing over to their team and things like that. So it's been just a great success.

Cal Wilder: 21:54

Wow, that's, that's, that's a big one. All right. Are there you know, specific symptoms or signs that a small business owner could kind of look at and pick up and think with this going on in your business? I should really explore a fractional coo like what are the what are the signs and symptoms like kind of know, like you said earlier, if you've got problems on the finance side, like you're losing money, you're you have no idea how your performances, and it seems like your cash flow is a lot different than your P&L in QuickBooks, we'd want some help designing bonus plan or something, you kind of know you need those things. And that kind of leads you to Yeah, I need probably need a fractional CFO to help me. But, you know, what are some of the more specific signs and symptoms that would kind of lead you in the direction of a fractional COO?

Jeff Provost: 22:47

Yeah, great question. So what we often see is, again, we're working with entrepreneurial businesses, and you know, entrepreneurial owners who, in many instances have have done all aspects of their business, they've done the sales, they've done, the finances, they've done all this stuff. So when they pay attention to something, it gets better. As soon as they stop paying attention to that thing, it goes backwards, and it gets worse. And so if you're tired of you No, feel like you're the only one who who can actually make something happen in in a particular area of the business, that's often a sign that you would benefit from an experienced operator who can help you put the right structure and process in place so that other people can deliver not just you. So that's that's one thing where like, you constantly have to get kind of pulled back into the minutia, to put out fires, because your team just doesn't seem to have the capacity to do it without you. And so that's, that's a really big one. I think if you're, if you're not making the kind of money that you want to make, and you just know that your business is destined for greatness, but yet you can't seem to get to that proverbial next level, you can't seem to get there wherever there is, that's often a time for for a conversation and thinking about your strategy and your goals and things like that. And you know, many times we'll bring in, you know, we're not we're not trying to be the, you know, everything right? We're not going to be the the CFO and the sales and all these things, but we'll bring in the right resources who can help in specific areas, but helping you to identify which areas are the most important to focus on right now. How do you prioritize where do you need to focus first and in most right, so we can really help with with those pieces. So I think if you're, you know, if you're tired of getting pulled back into the minutia, you feel like you're the only one that seems to get it and, you know, and you're frustrated by the lack of accountability of your team and, and the inability to kind of hit Your goals and achieve the results you want. That's, that's really when you might benefit from, you know, someone like a fractional COO.

Cal Wilder: 25:08

Right, right. I mean, I think in my experience, a lot of founders of small businesses or you know, salespeople who want to go sell new business, or they're very, you know, they're technicians, they're professionals in some kind of industry or trade, or they're an engineer, or they're a software developer, and they love the technical side of the work. And they kind of have this, they know, if they really focused on the operations for a month or two, they can improve things, but like you said it once they stopped focusing, because they just get sick and tired of it. Things degrade, right. And so I think it's just the natural challenge of the nature of the beast with small businesses, the, the owners tend not to be COOs by background, and they can focus on operations for a limited period of time. But if they do it for too long, they're gonna get sick and tired of it, right?

Jeff Provost: 25:59

Five or 10 years in business, and you're still working, you know, six or seven days a week, and like, you're the only one that can do things, that's a problem, right? That's not sustainable, you're gonna burn yourself out. And, you know, you need to focus on getting all of those things that you have in your head out. And then making it clear for people how they can, how they can do those things, building the process, right, making sure you've got everything documented, making sure that you're training people making sure that you've got clear measures in place, and then you make sure you've got the right people can deliver on that, and you have a process in place to you know, review their performance, hold them accountable, etc. So, there, there is a better way, and it doesn't just mean working more hours, right. And so that's that's the that's the gist,

Cal Wilder: 26:47

I guess I'm assuming there's this gap between, you know, not having a fraction COO, then you have a fractional COO, but it may be a number of years before the business grows to the point where it can afford a real full time, COO. And so, you know, to what extent, you know, do you implement specific business management systems, like you touched on EOS earlier, there's scaling up there's okie OKR frameworks, there's value build, they're like, there's various frameworks that you know, supply some of that structure to go along with the the efforts of a fractional COO of you, how do you get into those structures? Do you have any favorites that aren't particularly good fits in different situations?

Jeff Provost: 27:26

Yeah, so I, you know, we do a lot of business with with Eos, and really love EOS, I actually run KPI on on EOS as well. So that's my, that's definitely my preferred. But to your point, there's a lot of different frameworks and systems out there, it doesn't really matter what it is, it happens that you have something you have a you have a standard process that you use. So whether you use scaling up whether you use, you know, you kind of go through E Myth, whether you go through cruising company's growth system, or system and soul or any of these different things that exist out there, pick one, pick one and use it, embrace it, and, you know, figure out, does it work for you or not? And, and, you know, but do something you can't just keep on, you know, hope is not a strategy, right? So you can't just continue to do the same things and hope that results are going to improve, we need benefit from the methodologies that are proven and tried and true that, you know, can work and use one. So that's, that's my advice is take a look at all that stuff and figure out what makes the most sense for you.

Cal Wilder: 28:41

Okay, that makes sense. So, you specifically, when you engage with a new client, you know, what does that kind of contract structure look like? How do you define success and whether the small business owner works with you or another fractional COO, I assume there's some commonalities around how the engagement gets structured. And so what does that really look like?

Jeff Provost: 29:07

Yeah, so everything that it and I can only speak for, for KPI I know some of the other types of models that exist out there. But everything we do is we do fixed fee, you know, pay and pay in advance. So you, you basically, we agree on what the scope is that we're going to deliver, you know, we're going to run these meetings, we're going to own these projects, we might sit in another seat in the organization for a period of time to fix something and and get it improved, right. So we kind of agree on on that scope up front. And then everything we do is just kind of fixed fee. So we don't get into hourly billing. You know, you're what we don't want to be is the No disrespect to the lawyers out there. But we don't want a business owner to think twice about calling us because they're going to get billed for a 15 minute or 30 minute conversation right so we generally are accessible, outside of like our agreed upon, you know, meeting structure and time and things like that. I mentioned this before, too, but everything we do is just month to month, there's no long term contract. So, you know, our, our guarantee, if you will, is we add value. And if we don't, then you just shouldn't pay us anymore. So there's really no long term risk to the business owner of like, if we're not working out, then, you know, let's, let's agree, and we can we can kind of part ways that that hasn't happened yet. So, you know, we continue to engage over the long term, we do some project work, but most of what we do is kind of that recurring engagements, and I mentioned before, but most of our engagements are between six and 18 months.

Cal Wilder: 30:50

Okay, great. So I probably want to recap some of what I've heard, and see if anything you would add to the conversation. But before I jump into a recap here, which I think else that listeners should know about this whole concept of fractional COOs.

Jeff Provost: 31:08

Yeah, I think we've been open minds, it's, it's worth exploring, and, you know, having a conversation with someone to kind of see how it might help your business. And there's a lot of different, you know, ways that you can engage that don't break the bank. You know, depending on where you're located to there's, there's also different things that you might be able to take advantage of. So, for example, we're located in Massachusetts, Massachusetts, has a program called the Massachusetts Workforce Training Fund, that all Massachusetts based businesses contribute to, and we've got a couple of different workshops that are approved by the Workforce Training Fund. So you might be able to get reimbursed either 100%, or 50%, depending on the size of the organization, and how many people and things like that, for engaging with some of these workshops, and other states have similar programs that we're also kind of exploring and investigating. So it's, it's worth a conversation just to see, you know, how, how might something like this helped me and one of the things that we found is just by engaging with, with business owners, you know, it's, it's very, it becomes very clear very quickly, no one and nothing is perfect, right. And so, they tend to, we're just having a casual conversation, they start to spill their guts, about everything that's broken in the business and what their vision is for all this stuff. And so if we're not the right solution, we know, we're great networkers, we have a huge kind of, you know, network of people that we can recommend and refer. And so even if we're not the solution, we can gladly introduce you to someone else who can help. Right. And so that's why I think it's worth the conversation. Right,

Cal Wilder: 32:51

right. And I presume kind of personality fit between the COO and the founder is critical to success. And it's not a fit for everybody. Right? And so the founders have to be comfortable as well as the COOs.

Jeff Provost: 33:07

Yeah, and upfront, we do a lot of in any, any, you know, business should do this, right. You know, we do a lot of focus on kind of that fit. So if you're running on Eos, there's certain tools that EOS has to help kind of maps the public pieces together of the visionary and the integrator, you know, and then it's just Are we a good fit for you, as an owner, are we you know, we often will spend time with the leadership team in advance and make sure that we're a good fit for them? You know, we're not going to, we've got zero interest in taking on business for the sake of business, right? If we can't add value, we're not going to do it anyway. So you know, if it's a particular, you know, special specialty that we don't have, or an industry that we're not great in or whatever, then we'll gladly refer you to someone else who can be more helpful.

Cal Wilder: 33:58

That makes sense. So Jeff, what I've heard, in a nutshell, here is when small businesses engaged with a fractional COO, they tend to define the strategy of the business mix, search to find, make sure there are objectives and targets defined, then those results get measured and reported on and there's an accountability process. And you find specific individual problems that need to get fixed to work work through that punch list. Is that about it?

Jeff Provost: 34:30

Yeah, yeah, at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. The, I guess, the last piece that we didn't really touch too much on. But, you know, a lot of businesses throw money at tools, right. You know, we need Salesforce, we need HubSpot. We're going to, you know, get this other thing in that they often expect that all of these tools are going to be the answers to their problems. And then they're frustrated when they spend all this money, and they find that their life isn't any better after this tool. And so, amidst all of what you just described, there is this notion of, you know, making sure you've got the right process first. And then making sure you've got the right tools based on what you're trying to achieve and the people that you have. So through all of this, the one of the threads is that focus on technology and making sure you've got the right systems process tools in place to help you, you know, achieve your goals and things like that as well. So that's another kind of element that we'll we'll do a lot of work with as well.

Cal Wilder: 35:29

Yeah, remember, Jeff, that was always a strength of yours. Okay, well, thank you, Jeff, for taking the time to share this information with our listeners. If anybody wants to follow up with you directly. What's the best way for them to connect with you?

Jeff Provost: 35:43

Yeah, you can, you can visit us online, usekpi.com. Or feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. And I do a lot of activity on there and always looking to engage with with business owners and other partners.

Cal Wilder: 36:01

All right, well, great. Well get that information in the show notes for reference. Thanks again, Jeff. Great speaking with you.

Jeff Provost: 36:07

Great, thank you so much, Cal, really appreciate it.

Cal Wilder: 36:11

Reference shownotes and find other episodes on empowering healthy business.com. If you would like to have a one on one discussion with me, or possibly engaged smart books to help with your business, you can reach me at Cal "C-A-L" at empowering healthy business.com or message me on LinkedIn where I am easy to find. Until next time, this is empowering healthy business, the podcast for small business owners signing off.